In this powerful interview, SA’s Chief Rabbi, Dr Warren Goldstein, calls out the ANC on the hypocrisy of its leadership and many other failures, sharing why he believes South Africans must vote the party out of power on May 29. In a break with the timid silence of SA spiritual leaders, Dr Goldstein explains why SA needs a very different government: aligned with other democracies, not one cosying up with authoritarian regimes in Iran, Russia and China. Fresh from addressing an AIPAC conference in the US, Dr Goldstein shares his message there – that instead of supporting Hamas and its ilk, SA should be playing a leading role in helping Africa’s 600m Christians repulse escalating Jihadi terror attacks in Mozambique, Nigeria and elsewhere on the continent. He spoke to Alec Hogg of BizNews.
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Edited transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___
00:00:08:07 – 00:00:41:17
Alec Hogg: The South African religious leaders have a proud record. Certainly, during apartheid, they called out the wrongs of those in power, speaking truth to power. Desmond Tutu, Frank Chikane, Trevor Huddleston, Peter Storey, Chief Rabbi Cyril Harris. But in recent years, those voices seem to have been stalled, apart from occasionally Archbishop Thabo Makgoba and today’s guest, Rabbi Dr. Warren Goldstein.
00:00:41:17 – 00:01:08:16
Alec Hogg: Rabbi Goldstein, thank you for joining us today. You’ve been amplifying your voice strongly using social media. I noticed a few of your recent videos, with over 200,000 views. Now, we know from Biznews TV that 200,000 is a sizable audience. When did you decide to start doing this, getting onto social media and YouTube?
00:01:08:18 – 00:01:47:11
Warren Goldstein: Yeah, well, I think the point you raise is critical because this is not just about politics. Sometimes people think the debates are only about politics and economics, but they are moral issues. That’s why it’s important for religious leaders to speak up. There are issues of human suffering, like education problems and undignified service in state hospitals.
00:01:47:11 – 00:02:05:05
Warren Goldstein: These are not just operational issues; they are moral issues. With social media, one can go straight to the people without filters, talking directly to the people of this country. It’s a privilege and responsibility to speak up on these moral issues.
00:02:18:01 – 00:02:53:16
Alec Hogg: It’s quite extraordinary, actually. To put 200,000 people into a stadium, you’d have to get three Ellis Parks full to the brim for that kind of impact. But why have leaders from the spiritual sector, so strong during apartheid, been largely absent?
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00:03:17:17 – 00:03:40:22
Warren Goldstein: In apartheid, there was a clarity of good versus evil, but today things appear more murky. The moral issues are just as clear. Apartheid was uniquely evil, but today’s moral failings are just as critical. We need to speak out on issues like the high murder rate and lack of empathy for human suffering.
00:04:23:11 – 00:04:32:15
Warren Goldstein: We need to go directly to the people; we are a nation of heroes and can create a better future. But we have to call out the wrongs as we see them.
00:04:54:21 – 00:05:16:16
Warren Goldstein: Certainly. One of the greatest things South Africa has is that we are a nation of people of faith. The vast majority of South Africans are people of faith with churches in every corner. Prayer and the values represented by the Bible are critical to building a better society.
00:05:45:06 – 00:06:02:09
Warren Goldstein: Values of integrity, hard work, family, commitment, loyalty, self-sacrifice, discipline, compassion, kindness, charity — these are critical values in South Africa, and we need to tap into them.
00:06:02:11 – 00:06:29:16
Alec Hogg: So that’s a good background or a good segue for what you’ve been doing recently. There are people in South Africa who are very angry with you because of your stance on Israel. In the past week or so, you visited the United States and spoken to an organization calling itself America’s pro-Israel lobby. You took that opening address to AIPAC and put it on your channel. What was your message to those Americans, and what can South Africans of faith take from it?
00:06:53:12 – 00:07:27:11
Warren Goldstein: I gave two messages relevant to our country and continent. One is the unnoticed human rights crisis of jihad persecution of African Christians. Mozambique’s crisis, similar to what Hamas does in Israel, is part of this. I pleaded with Americans to take note and called out our government’s silence on these issues.
00:08:25:05 – 00:09:13:03
Warren Goldstein: Don’t write off South Africa. This ANC government doesn’t represent our values. Come and see for yourselves, and you’ll see a great nation with values deeply connected to those that made the United States. We share Judeo-Christian values that informed the US founding fathers.
00:09:13:05 – 00:09:46:13
Alec Hogg: Boko Haram, al-Shabab, these are extremists, not representative of Islam or Christianity. Many people of faith disavow such violence. But your pro-Israel stance has angered some. How do you react to them?
00:10:15:05 – 00:11:51:05
Warren Goldstein: This isn’t about a particular religion. These groups represent an extremist form of jihadist ideology, a real global threat. Hamas’s war against Israel is part of a larger issue. Supporting free democracies like Israel is crucial in the face of despotic regimes like Iran, China, and Russia, which this government has sided with.
00:11:51:09 – 00:12:43:14
Warren Goldstein: Free democracies represent hope for humanity. Unfortunately, this government’s alliances with despotic regimes betray our constitution and values. We must condemn extremism and support free democracies for a better future.
00:13:01:09 – 00:13:29:01
Alec Hogg: Is it not just naivety? Is it evil? Because if you’re saying Putin was elected in a free and fair election, then you haven’t been paying attention. Perhaps South Africans are too trusting and naive, believing incorrect narratives. But do you believe the ANC has become purely evil?
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00:13:35:18 – 00:14:58:09
Warren Goldstein: The ANC is not monolithic. I’ve received support from senior members within the ANC for my messages. However, forming alliances with despotic regimes like Russia, Iran, and China, and being silent in the face of persecution and murder, is evil and betrays our people. The actions themselves are evil, and South Africa deserves better. The heartlessness towards human suffering is evident, with a doubled murder rate and neglect of public services.
00:14:58:12 – 00:16:58:01
Warren Goldstein: How do government officials sleep at night knowing about the suffering? This is a moral outrage that needs to be addressed. These are not just political issues; they are moral imperatives for building a better future for our country.
00:16:58:03 – 00:17:25:05
Alec Hogg: Chief Rabbi, you recently raised concerns about South African banks and MTN in one of your videos. Can you shed more light on this, especially given your connections in the business community?
Warren Goldstein: Well, let’s start with MTN. Currently, there is a case unfolding in the United States courts in Brooklyn where MTN is being sued by the families of United States Marines killed in Afghanistan. The lawsuit alleges that MTN, through its partnership with the Iranian Republic and specifically the Iranian Republican Guard, which is known as the largest state-funded terror organization globally, was involved in switching off networks in critical times in Afghanistan at the request of the Iranian Republican Guard. This resulted in the deaths of United States Marines during battles.
00:18:38:03 – 00:21:30:02
Warren Goldstein: Furthermore, President Ramaphosa was the chairman of MTN when this partnership was established. As for the banks, discussions have been held with some CEOs, but they often cite confidentiality agreements and global financial regulations as constraints in sharing information. However, there are ongoing investigations by international organizations into terror funding links in South Africa.
Publications like The Jerusalem Post, known for its reputable global coverage, have reported on these matters. It’s important to note that South Africa has been identified in global publications as a hub for terror financing, posing a security threat to our nation.
While I am not an investigative journalist or a prosecutor, as a religious leader, I believe this is a moral issue that cannot be ignored. It’s about safety, justice, and upholding the concept of rights. The process is ongoing, and it’s crucial for our country’s safety and integrity that this matter is thoroughly addressed and not brushed aside.
Alec Hogg: Chief Rabbi Dr. Warren Goldstein. And I’m Alec Hogg from Biznews.com.
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